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Julia Norman's avatar

Capital-L "Liberal" is synonymous with the Democratic party in the states, unfortunately. Because so many people feel betrayed by the party, especially after what they did to Sanders, there's a desire to distance ourselves from it. "Liberals aren't the left" always read identically to "this isn't my party" to me. It's usually followed by "our politics are to the right of many other countries."

I think, in the US context, it can be useful. A frankly shocking number of Americans don't have any political awareness outside of the two parties. It gets out of the presupposed, especially Republicans who reflexively think anyone who disagrees with them is a Democrat. I've actually used the phrase myself when talking to my relatives and neighbors.

That being said, and for that very reason, a lot of Americans think their political ideas and lived experiences are universal. That I find more egregious, honestly.

Shimrra Shai's avatar

I really am fed up with these label game arguments. They are beyond useless. Let's talk what you actually believe and want done and how you think of different individuals, situations, groups of people etc. Like do you want government power expanded? To where? Not expanded? To where? How should a government be structured? What room is there for society outside the state? What do you believe about tactics? Is rule breaking the State's law ever acceptable? Never? If never, how does that not basically amount to giving the elite the power they need? Are poor people at fault for being poor in a system as corrupt as this one? If so, how and how is that not to in some regard legitimate the system? What do we do with a system where wealth and power end up along racial lines? Should racial minorities be obligated to "assimulate" to a culture that has never given them good shrift historically or currently? Those are the kind of questions I need hearing and answers to and discussing more "left and right and other labels" label/flag games is irritating because I want to know MORE than that. I want to go BEYOND the labels. I want to know what are ACTUALLY BELIEVED, DEMANDED, AND DONE. Who the fuck cares if someone fits some label. I want to know what and how it will be taken if I say that I would rather have a system without the nation state. I want to know if you'd be there or ignore an attempt to build mutual care-based culture. I would want to know if you'd be willing to use disruption protest that actually was targeted at the right targets - like instead of blocking random people on Sunday and pissing off potential allies needlessly as a result, you directly blocked the streets to Palantir or BlackRock HQ or JPMC on Monday 9:00 AM. If I had the capacity to pull that off, would you be there or be lumping me with the "bad people" and thus thinning my crowd? Etc.

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